The Prof Responds & Vice-versa Blame the victim, anyone?
Tom Harker,
I don't think it's hard to distinguish what is caused by dumb educational philosophy and by dysfunctional black ghetto families.
Of course pedagogy won't overturn the effects of racism; that's one of my points and why I talk about the black underclass and Marshal Plans; sensible pedagogy is a necessary but not a sufficient condition of effective urban schools.
Job availability is not enough, the available jobs are taken by Somalis, Caribbean Africans, Asians, etc. Most of the American ghetto blacks are ruined and unemployable because of father absence, casual and disorderly homes, the drug culture, the anger culture, and families that reproduce that culture.
The Nationwide guy whose door would be beaten down by doubled pay would hire hardly any of these people. You are resisting acknowledging the pathology of the black ghetto; it's not much about race anymore and not much about money, it's about psychic ruination. Offer all the jobs you want, they will be taken in large part by people of color but not by ghetto African Americans.
Andy Oldenquist
* * *
Professor Oldenquist,
You mention “the black underclass” and argue that “ghetto blacks are ruined and unemployable because of father absence, casual and disorderly homes, the drug culture, the anger culture, and families that reproduce that culture.”
How do you think they got that way? The public schools?
Slavery, Jim Crow, lynchings, red-lining, etc. were not invented by public schools, and the effects of these things cannot be significantly addressed by schools. What makes you think they can? If indeed they CAN, well then schools should also eradicate the racist attitudes of “the white upperclass” living in disciplined, orderly, prescription-drug-oriented, happy-face, “Daddy’s home” gated communities.
Or is the ghettoized white upperclass ruined and uneducable when it comes to self-serving racism? Would all the insights we want to engender be incorporated in large part by people of color but not by gated-community, white Americans?
Maybe we need a Marshal Plan to address the pathology of the white, wealthy enclaves. Or do you resist acknowledging the pathology of the white ghetto?
Your comments regarding jobs do belie a bit of the Bar-Bush syndrome – i.e. : "So many of the people here, you know, were underprivileged anyway, so this is working very well for them.”
When I said the “underclass” needed a future, a stake in America, good jobs; I meant what I said. You interpreted “good jobs” as those “available” jobs that will be taken by “Somalis, Caribbean Africans, Asians, etc.,” jobs that would “be taken in large part by people of color but not by ghetto African Americans.”
Well, I meant jobs that would be seen as desirable to ANYONE – including whites!! You restrict the “stake” in America to “available” jobs that whites won’t take. Yeah, that’ll work.
But if it doesn’t, you can always blame it on “outmoded educational philosophy” in the public schools.
- Uke Man
I don't think it's hard to distinguish what is caused by dumb educational philosophy and by dysfunctional black ghetto families.
Of course pedagogy won't overturn the effects of racism; that's one of my points and why I talk about the black underclass and Marshal Plans; sensible pedagogy is a necessary but not a sufficient condition of effective urban schools.
Job availability is not enough, the available jobs are taken by Somalis, Caribbean Africans, Asians, etc. Most of the American ghetto blacks are ruined and unemployable because of father absence, casual and disorderly homes, the drug culture, the anger culture, and families that reproduce that culture.
The Nationwide guy whose door would be beaten down by doubled pay would hire hardly any of these people. You are resisting acknowledging the pathology of the black ghetto; it's not much about race anymore and not much about money, it's about psychic ruination. Offer all the jobs you want, they will be taken in large part by people of color but not by ghetto African Americans.
Andy Oldenquist
* * *
Professor Oldenquist,
You mention “the black underclass” and argue that “ghetto blacks are ruined and unemployable because of father absence, casual and disorderly homes, the drug culture, the anger culture, and families that reproduce that culture.”
How do you think they got that way? The public schools?
Slavery, Jim Crow, lynchings, red-lining, etc. were not invented by public schools, and the effects of these things cannot be significantly addressed by schools. What makes you think they can? If indeed they CAN, well then schools should also eradicate the racist attitudes of “the white upperclass” living in disciplined, orderly, prescription-drug-oriented, happy-face, “Daddy’s home” gated communities.
Or is the ghettoized white upperclass ruined and uneducable when it comes to self-serving racism? Would all the insights we want to engender be incorporated in large part by people of color but not by gated-community, white Americans?
Maybe we need a Marshal Plan to address the pathology of the white, wealthy enclaves. Or do you resist acknowledging the pathology of the white ghetto?
Your comments regarding jobs do belie a bit of the Bar-Bush syndrome – i.e. : "So many of the people here, you know, were underprivileged anyway, so this is working very well for them.”
When I said the “underclass” needed a future, a stake in America, good jobs; I meant what I said. You interpreted “good jobs” as those “available” jobs that will be taken by “Somalis, Caribbean Africans, Asians, etc.,” jobs that would “be taken in large part by people of color but not by ghetto African Americans.”
Well, I meant jobs that would be seen as desirable to ANYONE – including whites!! You restrict the “stake” in America to “available” jobs that whites won’t take. Yeah, that’ll work.
But if it doesn’t, you can always blame it on “outmoded educational philosophy” in the public schools.
- Uke Man
1 Comments:
Hey Uke man,
I'm a bit late in seeing this and responding, but bravo for your eloquent and insightful response to the professor. The problem with liberals is that they think they have all the answers and that this knowledge somehow places them above the hoi polloi. Such seems to be the case of Professor Oldenquist. I was most happy that you, the leftist, saw through his classism and called him on his blindness to the classist and racist social institutions which seem to promulgate many of the social ills we continue to experience.
Have at 'em my friend!
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